Like Willem I could go on a huge anti-buddhist rant. As for favorite. Er, nothing’s done much for me so far.
I thought I would share some of my own to help things move along…
I have the found Zen, Daoism and Shamanism to be very powerful and useful in my own life. I treat all systems, including these in the same fashion… I use what is useful to me and discard what is not. I use what agrees with my heart and what works in my life.
Here is one system of shamanic thought and action that I have found enjoyable and easily workable, it is called Huna and you can find info on it here:
I find the Teaching Hut to be the most insightful part of the website:
http://huna.org/html/teaching.html
I have found that great systems of thought and action often have their roots in ancient tradition. In this case, the tradition of Huna stems from old Hawai’i. However, Huna is a system practiced by many people all over the world.
Another great shaman who works under a similar system is Hank Wesselman. He has played an influential role on me as an elder both in person in his workshop and through his books. Please check him out here:
I have found the writings and practices of Carlos Castaneda insightful as well. Though I know opinions of his works vary greatly, some people think he is awesome and insightful, others think he is a crazy idiot who took a lot of drugs. He is the author of many books and perpetuator of a manner of movement and gathering energy that I have found very beneficial for those of us Rewilding…
Daoism is a wonderful philosophy that has influenced every part of my daily action and thoughts, here is some great websites for more info on it:
http://www.yakrider.com/Tao/Taoism_Daoism.htm
If you want a softer, more easily digestible intro to Daoism, read the Tao of Pooh. I love the 2 books in this set…
http://www.just-pooh.com/tao.html
Here are some qoutes from the 1st book:
http://winnie-the-pooh.ru/online/lib/tao.html
Hope you all find interesting stuff in the links. Excited to see what you all share.
;D
Being an ex-Catholic I can go off on crazy rants myself. But I have done that for years and in the end it leaves me feeling self-righteous, but also really shitty. I imagine that is the case for others as well… as with all things in life, what you focus on most is what you experience most.
So really, I want to hear about what works for people. I wanna focus on the positive and share that energy.
So if no systems you have come across work for you Penny, than what does work? What’s your personal one that works for you and why do you like it/enjoy it and find it effective?
Taoism helped me makee the leap from catholic-i-pagan(spiritual)-atheist. Taoism then relinked me back to the Ten Thousand Ways, and became an integral part in making me.
What’s key in all eatern religions are the translations. I’ve read some horrible translations of the tao, the worst ones are one that try and make poems that make western sense. I’ll come back to the site tomorrow afternoon and give you my recommendation for translation.
I ave no criticisms for Buddhism or any religious thought that was intended to break the orthodoxy, only to become the new paradigm of orthodoxy. You’ll notice anyone flying the flag of a reformer often is captilizing on the symbol, but not on the inner containing philosophy. So being secure of buddha being the first Jesus, or the Second Krisna, depending on how oyu look at things, I tend to go to the source, and feel less dissapointed by the likes of Christ and Krisna.
As Ghandi said, I love your Christ, but despise your Christians (paraphrased)
Indeed, I have found that to be my experience as well, TonyZ.
The systems are like the Zen short story says… a finger pointing away at the moon. Don’t get stuck on the finger, but realize it is pointing at the truth and the Source. It is the same for shamanism for me, in that the practices get you in touch with the spirits… whether drumming, rattling, icaros, structured dreaming, or descriptions of approaching the spirits… just means to getting you there, but once you are there you are beyond the system.
A good shaman to me is always one that is not just effective at the particular style of shamanism he practices, but is also willing to admit to how arbitrary it is and that what really matters is Spirit.
;D
The Tracker School really got me started on the spiritual side of rewilding. However for a long time I wandered the wilderness of one-right-way-shamanism, I’ll admit, until in latter years I’ve begun to see a kind of “core animism” that I’ve found the most spiritually grounded of all the paths I’ve trod (perhaps ‘core’ in the same sense as Jon Young’s list of ‘core routines’ that create proficient trackers).
I mean, really. If you can listen to the trees, and the air, and everything, and speak to them too…if you belong to the world, and experience it as it weaves itself around you (and you weave yourself around it)…what else do you need?
I used to equate ‘shamanism’ with spirituality, but now I see it as just a role, a craft, like basket making. And the one who makes baskets may have a deeper and wiser sense of ‘spirituality’ than the shaman.
In any case, I notice that the world keeps speaking to anyone who’ll listen. I guess you’d call that relationship animism…you could also just call it relatedness. I do see folk Taoism as very close to (or indistinguishible from) this attitude.
For me the what else I need is help in finding… what’s next?
To an extent, I have found my what’s next in habitat restoration, using all this listening I have been building up for years.
I think of it as earth weaving, helping succession along by introducing increasing soil complexity to that of undistrbed areas.
A practical application of my medicine journeys are that of reducing the turnaround from traditional to organic farms from seven years to two years… earth weaving breaks down chemicals with fungal enzymes, extracts heavy metals, and provides ample fuel for natural succession to take place.
Taoist principles of knowing how to act in accordance with ‘The Way(s)’ is key here, and Fukuoka-San would be the earth weaving guru of our time.
Animism plays a strong role in my own personal shamanic/Daoist influenced beliefs.
Willem, I get what you mean. Shamans are often like basketmakers or other people with a particular skill set.
I guess my personal experience with them has been that they are often also wisemen and wisewomen, counselors, elders and much more.
Shamanism is a skill set which allows people to journey into the Spirit World and interract with it for healing, problem solving and gaining knowledge. I find that it is a powerful skill to have, especially in a primitive setting where healing people requires methods other than taking them to hospitals and popping pills. Not everything can be healed with herbs… Its really a totally different perspective on healing to begin with.
In my personal journey and philosophy I find it extremely difficult to extricate shamanic and animistic world views, since in many cultures they are united as one fluid unit. I find that as I walk through the woods, talk to trees and birds, make a friction fire or a shelter, look for food… I am practicing both animism and shamanism.
I used to equate 'shamanism' with spirituality, but now I see it as just a role, a craft, like basket making. And the one who makes baskets may have a deeper and wiser sense of 'spirituality' than the shaman.In any case, I notice that the world keeps speaking to anyone who’ll listen. I guess you’d call that relationship animism…you could also just call it relatedness. I do see folk Taoism as very close to (or indistinguishible from) this attitude.
I agree. I suppose to me the label shaman is defined more along the lines of the Hawai’ian word Kahuna which translates to “master.” Anotherwards, one who not only has a skill set but has also mastered him or herself to a large extent. In old Hawai’i, you could have a kahuna in shamanism, in basket making, in gardening, in fishing and so on.
I find, like you that the folk Taoism is the closest thing to what I do most of the time. Relatedness… I like that one a lot too. I suppose they are all just labels that are ultimately unnecessary to tack onto these experiences… I just find myself feeling compelled to do so only because I need to communicate with others about it.
Taoist principles of knowing how to act in accordance with 'The Way(s)' is key here, and Fukuoka-San would be the earth weaving guru of our time.
Tony, I checked out an article about Fukuoka-San. He sounds like a kahuna to me. 
I have learned some simple ways of praying and working with growing plants that could be called shamanic or animistic or Daoist or whatever else. But, what matters is it works. I am sure some of you know this already, but if you speak with your plants, pray for them and gently supply them with energy as they grow they are going to be much happier and healthier not to mention more productive. This is best done according to what nature tells you and shows you.
This is a great artcile about Fukuoka-San:
http://www.motherearthnews.com/DIY/1982-07-01/The-Plowboy-Interview-Masanobu-Fukuoka.aspx
[quote=“Little Spider, post:9, topic:110”]Animism plays a strong role in my own personal shamanic/Daoist influenced beliefs.
Willem, I get what you mean. Shamans are often like basketmakers or other people with a particular skill set.
I guess my personal experience with them has been that they are often also wisemen and wisewomen, counselors, elders and much more.[/quote]
Yep! Sadly, I had confused the two as synonymous, and so for years found myself surprised at the immature and inane behavior of certain shamans I’d meet (along with other “spiritual gurus”). Once I figured out that, though a shaman can have a lot of wisdom, along with shamanic skill, one can also have a lot of wisdom without any shamanic skill, and one must work at the two separately (though perhaps they may support each other). It almost seems to me that in a lot of ways, “wisdom” reaches its pinnacle in humans relating with other humans, some of the most difficult work we can do. In Wisdom Sits in Places, you can read a fantastic Apache folk tale about an elder and four medicine men, where the elder has to save the village from the egotism and overconfindence of the too-helpfull medicine men.
Anyhow, my life improved a lot when I no longer projected innate wisdom onto skillful shaman that I’d meet, but instead took them as they came, with foibles and all. And I’ve benefitted greatly from really wise shamans, along with the fairly foolish ones.
Great Fukuoka link!
Anyhow, my life improved a lot when I no longer projected innate wisdom onto skillful shaman that I'd meet, but instead took them as they came, with foibles and all. And I've benefitted greatly from really wise shamans, along with the fairly foolish ones.
Sage advice. I can say I have ran into some shaman who definitely don’t have their ego straightened out nor are wise, but are more like technitions. Infact, the odd thing is that I seem to find more and more of them lately. Shamanism is a skill, and like any trade there are wonderful people in it and not so wonderful people in it, wise and not so wise, caring and selfish…
In different traditional cultures, there are different levels of internal balance and selflessness that is needed in shamanic work. Some cultures require the shaman to be a very well balanced and selfless individual who works for the people when they request his help. That is what I found is and was required in the Hawai’ian traditions. There is a great qoute from Hank Wesselman’s book VISIONSEEKER that captures the challenge of being on the path very well…
The greater our personal advancement along the path of power, the more vulnerable we become to the flaws in our own character.
I am thankful to have had the pleasure of being taught by and spent time with Shamans who were bright, light-hearted, humble human beings with a knack for understanding people and helping them when they are asked too. These same people live regular lives like the rest of us, and don’t hold a high opinion of themselves.
Being able to practice shamanism doesn’t make one a shaman, either. To me a real shaman is one who is out there to help, has reined in his or her own ego and is willing to put it aside at a moments notice, and who is also able to admit just as swiftly that they don’t really know. That has been the slice of the pie that I have been most inspired by…
If you go to a place like Peru (where I spent the month of August in 2006) you can run into shamans left and right. Many of them are sadly out there to make money, and even more sadly the best way for them to make that money is by doing negative sorcery on others at a clients request. Not all of them do this, but many do. There are also those who compete with other shamans to be the best and will go to war against them to be top dog. Like any craft or trade, this one can be influenced by the human ego.
In the same mouthful, I can say that the shamans I had the pleasure of working with really did healing work only to help others and feed their families. Many of them have had to deal with the negative side of things and some even continue to work to heal others at great personal risk. Such is life in the Amazon… where shamanism is part of everyday.
The book recommendation sounds excellent. I will put it on my booklist. Thanks.
Guess I have yet to find my link to spirit, either that or I always have it. Don’t really know. I don’t much have what you would call spiritual “experiences”. I do feel energy, chi whatever you want to call it, had that since the first time I ever heard of it and tried to feel it. I see purple light behind my eyes if I’m in what you might call alpha state. gained that skill, if you can call it a skill, it’s more of an indicator I guess, at yoga ranch doing breathing exercises. And I’ve taken Reiki I and II (hands on healing) which seems to work, but not always. I don’t use it often.
I know these things are just tricks and don’t necessarily indicate spiritual depth, but I don’t know what else to say. I talk to plants. (I get especially loose lips when under the influence of caffeine or alcohol!) but they don’t talk back to me so far. Built a fairy house once in the woods and didn’t see or sense any fairies but a psychic lady (who had no idea I did this) told me the fairies wanted to play with me. Made and took a tincture to see faries once, didn’t see any, but fell asleep in the yard in my underwear. Tried some of Tom Brown’s meditations but didn’t really get anything. Went on a vision quest once. Got impossibly bored and jumped ship after 30 hours or so, learned nothing except not to try that again. Fasted once for 7 days on a hill but for health reasons not spiritual. Came down during the middle of the fast and partied. Fasted another time for 14 days, again health, not spiritual, went to school, ran, and acted normal the whole time.
I’m getting father off topic here and breaking the positive rule I know but I guess I feel a need to vent. I’ve been to all sorts of spiritual/herbalist/energy/crystal/homeopathic/acupuncture/massage/chiropratic type people with mild-no discernable effects for my myriad health problems…But I can’t judge for sure because they were too expensive so I was never able to stick with it.
Went to a spiritual development group for awhile where everyone gave eachother psychic messages, but while they were entertaining and none of the messages really affected me or my life. I’ve read LOTS of spiritual books: Buddhist, New Age, everything…but I’m more into experimenting and tangible results than philosophy in case you couldn’t tell. I tend to believe in things like psychic powers, a spirit world, shamans who can heal etc. and believe that other people have these experiences, but lack faith that I ever will (and no I don’t believe that it’s because I lack enough faith that I don’t have the experiences. I’m always willing to try and I think that’s guilt-ifying purist bullshit.) I don’t meditate or go to a secret spot regularly. Start often but just can’t make myself keep it up, and I figure if a spiritual practice is something you have to make yourself do, there is a fundamental flaw there. I call such practices “unsustainable”…I believe Scout knows what I’m talking about and calls them “self-help” in one of his blogs.
So where does this leave me? Am I just lazy and scatterbrained unable to stick with anything long enough to know if it really works or have I just not found my path yet? Either way I’m not overly concerned with it at this point. I just want to practice my primtive skills. Maybe that is my path for now.
I'm getting father off topic here and breaking the positive rule I know but I guess I feel a need to vent.
It was no rule, just a preference. I understand your need to vent, though.
So where does this leave me? Am I just lazy and scatterbrained unable to stick with anything long enough to know if it really works or have I just not found my path yet? Either way I'm not overly concerned with it at this point. I just want to practice my primtive skills. Maybe that is my path for now.
I don’t feel righteous, and don’t feel I can tell you or anyone here or anywhere how to act or think. I am not perfect nor superhuman and don’t pretend to be. So now that we have all that shit outta the way…
A simple observation on your writings… everything you mentioned starting you also mention not completing. Gives a bit of a skewed perspective, don’t you agree?
It has been my experience that I am a poor judge of anything if I don’t experience it in its entirety. Judging a joke without hearing the punchline or walking out of a movie without seeing the ending, definitely affects how accurately I see it. I by no means am the best at seeing things through to the end, but then again don’t consider myself an accurate judge of them if I don’t follow through. Guess what I’m getting at is… feel free to vent if it makes you feel btter, but consider not judging stuff if you haven’t stuck with it to completion.
Hey, even at completion you might think something sucks ass. But that’s life. I was a Catholic for 16 years of my life (born into a Catholic famliy) and found that after experiencing it for all those years, I really didn’t like it. Infact, I found it harmful and inhibiting to my growth as a person and so decided to let it go.
As you mentioned, I believe that for some of us… just living life (for you that might mean primitive living) is all the spiritual practice we need. Take a look at the Fukuoka guy… he is just a farmer, but his insight into life is pretty incredible and some might say, spiritual. He was not of any particular religious inclination as far as I know, nor did he spend hours meditating in a lotus position on a cold floor. He just watched life and flowed with it… that to me is the purest form of spirituality… its simply being in life. Relatedness.
;D
Yes, I’m quite aware and I do feel frustrated that I never finish things but perhaps we can explore what is it that causes someone to stick with something?
Results for one but those usually take time. Plus even things that have given me results reiki, yoga, various diets, the occasional herbal remedy, I don’t seem to stick with. Why not?
I think a real-life mentor as opposed to a book is important. A skilled mentor can keep you interested and push you just beyond your comfort level but not so far that you quit. But that can be hard to find locally and I don’t like to travel. Plus most teachers these days cost money. What is the unschooling route for spiritual studies?
Perhaps it’s like Scout and Willem always say…Support. If you’re friends and family are supportive and even doing the same things then it’s not drudgery and confusion but fun and sharing. Well I don’t have any local support but I’m sure you guys and gals here in the forum could help. Still I’m not sure where to begin. Which brings us back to the original question. What works for other people?
I’m not interested in not what people read so much but what sort of things people do routinely and what they get out of them. For example Little Spider how do you practice your shamanistic beliefs? How does it influence your everyday life?
Mmmm. Excellent point. Mentors are so important.
I have felt pretty stuck in some of my spiritual practices because I lack a mentor in that area. I can totally relate to what you are saying here, Penny.
I will find some good stuff to share with you and post it here.
For now, I can say that one of the links I shared earlier is very useful to me:
http://huna.org/html/teaching.html
First, I would suggest checking out the principles of Huna:
http://huna.org/html/huna.html
You could say that all practices come from these principles in Huna. The principles are working assumptions about the world. One way to quickly get started with Huna, is to play with the ideas found in that link.
Also, there is this great practice called Blessing… you could look at it as a somewhat altered form of the Thanksgiving address taught by Wilderness Awareness School and Chief Jake Swamp. If you are not familiar with that, I can explain it a bit in my next message. Here is the blessing practice:
http://huna.org/html/aspirit.html
I will go through some of my favorite material and post it here in the next few messages. Till then, enjoy!
;D
Here is another link from the Huna site that I think is insightful:
http://huna.org/html/ethuna.html
There are practices within Huna which I am excited to share with you here. However, a little bit of reading would be a nice intro so as I can spend less time explaining unnecessarily in the near future.
taoism has been huge for me. as was buddhism for a long time. now though, i am finding that all the reading and meditating and philosophy was preparation for the act of doing that i feel i am doing now. i haven’t picked up the tao te ching in years but the other day one of the quotes rang loud in my ears while i was stalking out here in the desert. it was strangebecause i’d never pulled the two together and have actually been feeling very lacking in teh spiritual department. i think the act of watching the reeds bend and recognizing the wind slowly shifting direction on my skin and the intense but nonchalant focus on the deer brought me back to a place i haven’t been in a long time.
i didn’t think that learning to live less civilized would bring so much more than the ability to use a bowdrill or track a bobcat.
oh yeah, dreams, my dreams have been my most ‘spiritual’ teacher recently.
Probably the biggest influences for me have been christian gnosticism, asatru and taoism. The christian influence hasn’t always been welcome, but after a great many years of struggle, I’ve managed to come to terms w/ it.
Even tho’ I didn’t study either of them deeply, I do have to give some credit to yoruba & lacumi for getting me thinking in a different enough way to find the others…
Animism does it for me. It gives me feelings. Feeling of being connected to everything. A feeling that we keeps moving…non-stop. A feeling of anything can happen. A feeling that no two things balance each other out. A euphoric feeling. An incast and an equal grounds feeling. A united and diversified connection with everything. A rooted and knowing feeling of unending alteration of movement with everything. An boarderless and unseparated feeling. A growing sense of reality.
What’s a Shaman?
Suddenly I’m reminded of the movie Chasing Amy… okay, better yet, what does shamanism mean to you?
I’ve met a few people following, or, uh, not following, living animisitically - and some claim this title. I think thats kinda like a soldier in a wayward batallion saying “Now I am the general!”
I think alot more than that. But I want to hear some other responses before I continue my pressings and caressings all over these poor defenseless keys.
To me, a shaman is a person who works with all the many layers of what we call reality to bring harmony between humans and the natural world. This includes being able to call upon and interact with spirits, faeries, the dead and so on to bring about that harmony. This is a form of healing. They also might heal a person individually, but that’s actually the same thing if you really think about it.
I have certainly met some who call themselves shaman, but who are caught up in the game of inflating their own selfworth and ego. Those who pratice shamanic skills for the sake of being admired or feared fall into this realm. But personally, those people are not shamans to me. They are huckersters and cons, with a vested interest in themselves but not true compassion or calling for healing.
Anyone who tries to do a shamanic healing on someone else will have to realize in the process that they are not healing anyone… Healing comes about through a combination of energy and assistance from the spirits and the cooperation of the person being healed. The shaman in can not claim credit for this, since all he or she does is to help assist that relationship and perhaps act as a channel to feed more energy into the process. But, the energy is not from the shaman… it comes through the shaman. To claim that the shaman owns it, is like a drain pipe claiming it owns the water that flows through it…
To me, it is a bit like the paradox of understanding the essential nature of Zen or the Tao. You might hear someone claim to understand the Tao. Anyone who makes such a statement, immediately proves that he or she does not know what they claim to know. The need for that person’s ego to claim possession and control over something immediately proves that they don’t really know it. It is the same for a shaman… any shaman who claims to be a great healer, immediately proves their ignorance and arrogance.